FILE 8 / 8 March 2017 / 60 MIN / full

A Trail Of Ashes & Bodies

Otisco, New YorkListen

The town

N ↑Public placePublic placeTown centre (approximate places)
Static locations; no street basemap. Places and details. OpenFreeMap © OpenMapTiles Data from OpenStreetMap.

Otisco, New York ... it's in Onundaga county, zip code 13159, area code 315 about 0:03:06

History, in brief

Town note

The area was originally part of the central New York military tract, two million acres set aside to pay Revolutionary War soldiers.

about 0:03:59

Town note

Congress promised each soldier about 100 acres of land, then raised it to 500 acres per soldier.

about 0:04:47

1798

Non-soldiers began settling in the area about 1798.

about 0:04:57

1806

The town of Otisco was officially formed in 1806, combining parts of three other towns.

about 0:05:01
All 8 history facts

Town note

The area was originally part of the central New York military tract, two million acres set aside to pay Revolutionary War soldiers.

about 0:03:59

Town note

Congress promised each soldier about 100 acres of land, then raised it to 500 acres per soldier.

about 0:04:47

1798

Non-soldiers began settling in the area about 1798.

about 0:04:57

1806

The town of Otisco was officially formed in 1806, combining parts of three other towns.

about 0:05:01

Town note

The settlers were religious, said to have come 'with the Bible in one hand and the spelling book in the other'.

about 0:05:17

Town note

Town legend held that an Indian family at the foot of Otisco Lake, the father and all the children, were thickly covered with hair like bears.

about 0:05:33

1830

The population was about 2,000 as of 1830 and declined to less than 900 by 1950.

about 0:06:28

2000

People came back in the 1980s and 1990s, and the population has been about the same since 2000.

about 0:06:40

The figures, as told

Religious

56%

Biggest faith: Catholic residents, 36%

about 0:08:30

Who lives here

White 98.4% · Black 0.0% · Asian 0.0% · Hispanic 0.63%

Ethnicity can overlap race.

Crime / national average

Property crime
▼ almost 10% lower

about 0:14:13

Violent crime
▲ about five percent higher

about 0:14:22

Money

Median home value$145,000
Two-bedroom rent$660 a month
Cost of living94

For sale

$68,900

Three-bedroom one-bath house on State Route 80

about 0:11:42
All figures and comparisons, as told in 2017

Property crime

"almost 10% lower"

Comparison: "national average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:14:13

Violent crime

"about five percent higher"

Comparison: "national average". Direction: above.

As told in 2017 about 0:14:22

Population

"2,557"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:06:13

Male share

"almost 56%"

Comparison: "usually about 51% female is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:06:46

Median age

"45.4"

Comparison: "national average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:06:54

People aged 45 to 54

"almost 22%"

Comparison: "way higher than normal". Direction: above.

As told in 2017 about 0:07:11

Married people

"about 10% more than normal"

Comparison: "national average". Direction: above.

As told in 2017 about 0:07:44

White residents

"98.4%"

Comparison: "62% is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:04

Black residents

"0.0%"

Comparison: "12.24% is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:04

Asian residents

"0.0%"

Comparison: "5% is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:04

Two or more races

"0.98%"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:04

Hispanic residents

"0.63%"

Comparison: "16.9% is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:19

Democrats

"60%"

Comparison: "38% Republicans". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:09:27

Religious residents

"56%"

Comparison: "49% average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:30

Catholic residents

"36%"

Comparison: "normal for the Northeast". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:30

Jewish residents

"0.87%"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:08:38

Muslim residents

"1.42%"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:09:20

Spending per student

"about 25% more"

Comparison: "national average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:09:33

Pupils per teacher

"12.2"

Comparison: "way lower than average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:09:39

High school diploma

"almost 95%"

Comparison: "about 10% higher than average". Direction: above.

As told in 2017 about 0:09:55

Four-year college graduates

"about 28%"

Comparison: "29% is the average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:00

Unemployment

"4.2%"

Comparison: "lower than the national average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:21

Average household income

"$63,669"

Comparison: "$53,000 national average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:31

People earning $75,000 to $100,000

"20%"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:38

Cost of living index

"94"

Comparison: "100 is the average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:49

Housing cost index

"78"

Comparison: "100 is the average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:56

Median home price

"$145,000"

Comparison: "$185,000 national average". No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:10:58

Vacant homes

"18.88%"

Comparison: "about twice the national average". Direction: above.

As told in 2017 about 0:11:06

Two-bedroom apartment rent

"$660 a month"

Comparison: "about $400 less than the national average". Direction: below.

As told in 2017 about 0:11:12

Homes priced $150,000 to $200,000

"30%"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:11:12

Three-bedroom one-bath house on State Route 80

"$68,900"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:11:42

Four-bedroom three-bath house

"$240,000"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:11:42

Four-bedroom one-bath house

"$155,000"

No direction stated.

As told in 2017 about 0:12:12

The reviews

No rated reviews

No reviews recorded.

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The story

Her father worked nights and her mother, Marilyn, was at home. In 1966 she tricked four-year-old Lita into swapping places so she could stay at their grandmother's. She began therapy within a couple of years.

In 1976 she had a daughter, Colleen, with Ronald Winters Jr. They married in 1977 and later that year had a son, John. In 1979 they settled in Theresa, New York. On 11 September 1979 a fire at a friend's house in nearby Herman killed the friend's three children. Investigators went back and forth between an electrical fault and kindling from the wood stove. Colleen, three, and John, twenty months, died. She and Ronald separated.

In June 1980 they had another son, Ronald Winters III, and moved to Otisco. On 21 November 1980, five-month-old Ronald died, recorded as sudden infant death syndrome. On 3 January 1981 two fires broke out in their trailer, both ruled arson. Over two decades she was near at least seventeen fires, at least nine ruled arson.

She had Joy in 1984 and Ashley in 1985. In 1987 she had another son, and in 1988 the couple divorced. While awaiting it, fires broke out at two houses where she was staying and in her aunt's garage.

On 12 November 1989 fire started in the basement storage room of her house on Willis Avenue in Syracuse. On 6 January 1990 another fire was ruled arson; family court removed the three children and gave custody to Ronald. On 18 March 1990 a two-storey apartment building on Lake View Avenue burned down. Fires in her aunt's garage on 21 September and 5 October 1990 destroyed the garage and house.

On 27 April 1996 her mother Marilyn's home burned down and her cousin barely escaped. Dr James Knoll concluded the fires were a repetition compulsion aimed at mastering the gas leak that killed her siblings; she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.

In 2006 at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester she heard babies' voices and felt compelled to bang her head and stab her legs. In November 2006 she was staying with family friends in Pierrepont, the grandparents of the children killed in the 1979 Herman fire. Ryan Rivers, 23 months, drowned in the bathtub while in her care. A week later she was pulled over, shirt torn and wrist scratched, screaming that the evil had to stop and was trying to get out; she said she had not taken her medication and was trying to reach the Ogdensburg facility.

In March 2007 authorities exhumed Colleen, John and Ronald. Autopsies found blunt force trauma to the first two before burning, and that Ronald had been suffocated.

The case

arson and murder case

Victims

Colleen Winters (3). daughter, died in the September 1979 cabin fire; exhumation found blunt force trauma to the head
John Winters (20 months). son, died in the September 1979 cabin fire; exhumation found blunt force trauma to the head
Ronald Winters III (5 months). son, died in November 1980 and recorded as SIDS; exhumation found he had been suffocated
Ryan Rivers (23 months). family friend's child, drowned in a bathtub while in care in November 2006

Accused and outcomes

As told in the episode, on 8 March 2017.

Accused

Outcome

Other people

Ronald Winters Jr.. husband, father of her children, given custody of the three surviving children in 1990
Marilyn. mother, survived the 1966 carbon monoxide leak; her home burned down in 1996
Joy Winters. daughter born 1984, escaped the Willis Avenue fire after allegedly told her to stay in bed
Ashley Winters. daughter born 1985
June Gross. cousin, said she would bite, throw things and dig her nails into people
Dr James Knoll. forensic psychiatrist at Upstate Medical University who studied
Mary Lou Winters. Ronald Winters Jr.'s mother, said her son always slept with one eye open

The timeline

  1. February 27, 1958 Baron is born near Otisco in south Onondaga County. (Baron family home)about 0:14:48
  2. age six Her sister's dress catches fire, traumatising .about 0:15:38
  3. 1966 swaps places with four-year-old Lita to stay at their grandmother's; a gas furnace leak kills Peter, Joyce and Lita in their beds. (Baron family home)about 0:16:45
  4. 1976 Daughter Colleen is born.about 0:21:04
  5. 1977 marries Ronald Winters Jr.about 0:21:13
  6. 1977 Son John is born.about 0:21:38
  7. 1978 The family is in California and is placed in a psychiatric care facility for a short time.about 0:21:50
  8. 1979 The family moves back east to Theresa, New York, on Lake Ontario.about 0:22:34
  9. September 11, 1979 A fire at a friend's house in nearby Herman kills the friend's three children. (Friend's house in Herman)about 0:23:46
  10. September 12, 1979 A fire at cabin in Theresa kills Colleen, 3, and John, 20 months; gets out. ('s cabin)about 0:24:30
  11. after the fire and Ronald separate.about 0:25:12
  12. June 1980 Son Ronald Winters III is born.about 0:25:43
  13. 1980 The family moves to Otisco.about 0:25:49
  14. November 21, 1980 Five-month-old Ronald Winters III dies; the death is recorded as sudden infant death syndrome. ( and Ron's trailer)about 0:26:06

Places and phrases

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Places in the story

Public places are marked on the map.

Heard in this episode